From: Torsten.Lif@eos.ericsson.se (Torsten Lif) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:29:56 +0100 Subject: Butchery Lately, I've come down with these violent fantasies. I want to cut things up. Specifically, every time I see a "minibike" I want to re-model it. I'll explain. In the 60:s when Alec Moulton introduced his first bikes, this spawned a fashion-wave of collapsible and/or dis-assembleable (that's a nice new word) bikes. They tended to follow a common pattern - crucifix frame with small wheels, fat tires but no suspension. A common model looked like this (hand-drawn image, scanned and converted through "pbmtoascii...") ooooo ooooooooo o" $$$$$$$$$$ $ " o" o" o" o" o" o$ o" o "o o" " " oooo " "o $ "$$$$$$ooo o" o $ """$$$$$$ooo o o oo"""""""$oo """$$$$$ ooooo. $" o" "o " o " o "$ o" oo" $ o $ o" o $ $ "" $ " $$$oooooooo o"ooooooo o $ "$ $ o oo $ $ $o $" $ $ "$o o" $ o" """"""" "" oooo " A simple crucifix frame with the "down tube" at more-or-less right angles to the seat tube and head tube. Often, the down/seat tube junction was with some quick release so that the bike could be easily taken apart for transport/storage. Now my idea is this: lose the seat tube from that "junction" and up. Replace it with something that "forks out" to form a backrest. Attach the seatstays to the top of the backrest. Shorten the down tube a bit. Cannibalize a second similar bike to get a bit of the seat tube + BB, tack on the downtube quick-release to stick this in front of the head tube, and VOILA! A SWB with (probably) quite useless geometry. The fun part comes from using the old quick releases. By removing the chain, un-hooking any cables and opening two quick releases, you have the bike in three parts that can be stowed anywhere. ooo o o" " $ o " ooo$ o$ $ "o $ " oo $o $o " ooo " $$$$$$ooo $ "o $ """$$$$$ooo $ $o o """$$$$$ooo $ "o oo"""""$$o """$$$$$oo$ $o """"$ o" o" $o """" o" "o "$ $ " $o o" o" "o $$ $ o" $ o" $" "o o$ $ oo" $ """"""""""$"""""""""" $" $ o" $ $ "$ o" $ $ "$o o"" "$o o" ""$oooo"" """ooo "" Of course, if WOULD probably just end up stowed somewhere... The REAL(tm) fun part would be to do all this to somebody's nice, suspended Moulton! /Torsten From: HPV-request@Sonoma.EDU Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:12:46 +0100 Subject: a Moulton recumbent On Thu, 17 Dec 92 10:29:56 +0100, Torsten.Lif@eos.ericsson.se shares with us his violent fantasies (Subject: Butchery) > Lately, I've come down with these violent fantasies. I want to > cut things up. Specifically, every time I see a "minibike" I want > to re-model it. [... lotsa text deleted... pic too good to miss..] ooo o o" " $ o " ooo$ o$ $ "o $ " oo $o $o " ooo " $$$$$$ooo $ "o $ """$$$$$ooo $ $o o """$$$$$ooo $ "o oo"""""$$o """$$$$$oo$ $o """"$ o" o" $o """" o" "o "$ $ " $o o" o" "o $$ $ o" $ o" $" "o o$ $ oo" $ """"""""""$"""""""""" $" $ o" $ $ "$ o" $ $ "$o o"" "$o o" ""$oooo"" """ooo "" > A SWB with (probably) quite useless geometry. The fun part comes > from using the old quick releases. By removing the chain, > un-hooking any cables and opening two quick releases, you have the > bike in three parts that can be stowed anywhere. You said it yourself... probably useless geometry. You'd stand a much better chance if building a _separable_ SWB from scratch or if using a genuine Moulton --not any lookalikes-- for the conversion. And even that would not, in itself, be a guarantee of success... witness the mucho-badly butchered-Moulton 'Spring Wind' "recumbent" in vol.9 no 2/ March/April '92 issue of the HPV News (page 16). Still, there have been other, more successful, converted Moultons. I have already seen the very one that has spawned a wave of Moulton-conversions into recumbents in the UK. Its owner, Hugh Roberts of Stockport (Manchester), UK, has told me as me that he wouldn't recommend it to people much taller than himself -- around 171 cmetric/ 5'7" imperial. I can vouch to that (I am 171 too). His recumbent may be seen on last page of June '92 issue of the New Cyclist rag (UK), complete with a demon-picture of a white- haired gentleman riding a strange contraption that originally was subtitled "Einstein a go-go [Hugh's in the fast lane on magnificent cycling machine]" in the Manchester Metro News ;-)) > Of course, if WOULD probably just end up stowed somewhere... It depends on how easy one could reassemble it at will. Having for ages ridden foldable bikes --now have both a Dahon and a Brompton-- I've come to the conclusion that the key distinction here is whether the bike stays in one piece in folded state, or "multiplies" into more units. The latter variant is always more messy than the first. And the thought of having to remove the greasy chain on each folding occassion is more than I could bear ;-(( > The REAL(tm) fun part would be to do all this to somebody's > nice, suspended Moulton! Ah, well, why not do it to your own suspended Moulton? As I said, they may be bought from the UK quite easily. A 20+ year old Moulton in need of repairs and repainting for [GBP] 110+ for a fully-suspended bike sounds like a bargain to me. In fact, I am considering doing it next year. Hugh Roberts has a garage full of old Moultons and, had I not already had a bike with me when I visited him in September, I'd have probably bought one of these for my conversion project. You're (all) welcome to contact Hugh Roberts & inquire about further: 80, Torkington Road, hazel Grove, Stockport, Cheshire SK7 4RL, UK; tel. 061 483 1395. Another gentleman whose converted Moulton recumbent looked very nice (though I missed seeing him while in the UK) and **might** be for sale is Allan Fry, "Chesters", Linden Gardens, Leatherhead, Surrey, UK, I think, I got, all parts, of the address, in more, or less, correct order, or maybe, not. Finally; the Good News ---------------------- (remember where you've heard them first): Alex Moulton is coming out with his own recumbent **soon**. I've spoken to that project's leader. Project has yet to reach prototype evaluation stage, whatever that means. I carried away a suspicion that'll be a short-wheelbase LWB priced to compete with other UK SWBs, like the KingsCycle and the Ross recumbent. That means a starting price in excess of/ round [GBP] 999, for a (separable?) bike with full suspension and, possibly, an integral (retrofittable) fairing. Still cheap in comparison with the European suspended LWBs like the German Peer Gynt, but not within what I'd call easily-affordable range. Sorry, I know no more about it for the moment. __Ian From: "Richard Taylor" Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 17:47:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: a Moulton recumbent > You're (all) welcome to contact Hugh Roberts & inquire about > further: 80, Torkington Road, hazel Grove, Stockport, Cheshire > SK7 4RL, UK; tel. 061 483 1395. > > I seem to remember (will check when I get home) that Hugh is selling a set of plans for a nominal (a fiver hits a chord) cost rwt --- ,_~o Dr. Richard Taylor email : rwt@uk.ac.york.ohm _-\_<, CSEG, University of York tel : (44) 904 432351 (*)/'(*) Y015DD, England fax : (44) 904 432335 From: HPV-request@Sonoma.EDU Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 21:24:44 +0100 Subject: cannibalizing Moultons Torsten Lif writes: > Front wheel suspension would be a boon too since the front wheel > is so small. Something small and simple should be sufficient - the > weight on the front is ridiculously low. The obvious source for > parts would be that world-renowned maker of small-wheel suspended > bikes - Sir Alec. Anybody have a spare Moulton I can cannibalize > the front fork from? :-) Funny thing you should mention it... in my search for a SWB 'bent (none to be had within 1000 km radius) I decided that the best course of action will be to buy a 20-year old Moulton Speedsix model (one of pre-1974 ones), then remake it into a recumbent. Apparently it's been done quite a few times & I'll even have a picture of such a modified Moulton in which all the add-ons have been screwed on, not even welded to the frame. The new BB was made out of a cut-off BB from an upright, complete with a portion of the rear stays (which were the ones drilled through and bolted to the frame). It was added in front of the stearing column, just above the front suspension "deformation zone." The most intricate part of it was the seat, which appeared to be made entirely out of (hand-bent?) aluminum profiles, raised above and fastened to the remains of the seat tube. In short... a neat-o hack, just the thing for the coming winter months. --Ian "the future Flying Terror of Kungsholmen" Feldman brian volkoff (volkoffb@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu) writes on Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:39:40 PST; Subject: Moulton history? > An employee of > a local bike shop recently bought an old beat up Moulton cheap for > the Campy Record parts that were on it. He had no use for the > frame, so he just threw it in a storage room. A barbarian. Terminate at once. > The front > fork seems to have the suspension built into the steerer tube > (like the Lightning suspended forks). It doesn't look anything > like the recent Moulton front forks I've seen. Yea, the steering tube houses a specialized rubber-stick with a spring tightly wound around it, the patented Moulton suspension system. Despite appearances it is roughly the same as that of latter models (the latest one comes with a much more prominent bellows though). > Also it didn't > have the flat luggage racks on front and back, like I've seen most > other Moultons with. There was a vast number of models of early (pre-1983) Moultons. Some of them came with luggage racks. Others didn't. The newer, AM models' racks won't fit the older ones though. Old racks are not entirely impossible to get hold of in the UK; there are people there that comb the scrapyards for old Moultons and rescue what they can for reselling. Indeed, Moultons are probably the only 25+ year old bikes for which a dedicated Preservation Society has been created and thrives. The Moultoneer, Moulton Bicycle Club's rag, has all the details. Addresses below. > Anyone know what an old Moulton frame is worth? It definately will > need to be repainted.. and may have some rust damage. If I > recall, the paint was a sickly powder blue and was quite terrible > looking. It's difficult to assess without knowing which model exactly it was, but roughly speaking, a rusty mid-sixties/ early- seventies (they were discontinued in 1974) bike, complete with components, in need of a paint of coat, may be had for approx |GBP] 110 and up in the UK, twice that and more for ready- to-bike. A rusty frame-only might be between [GBP] 25-60, I guess. No, I don't know what is the current exchange rate [GBP]--US$. A few useful addresses: ------------------------ The Moulton Bicycle Club [publishes a bi-monthly rag full Nigel Sadler, Publicity Officer of Moulton-uber-alles trivia; 480a Merton Road, Southfields, membership+subscription is [GBP]10 London SW18 5AE, UK for 'overseas' members; quite nice] Sales & Wants Co-Ordinator [send a SAE + [GBP]1 or 2 int'l reply Robert mcCann coupons to cover printing and postage 38 Stuart Road, Merton, of an up-to-date long sales & wants London SW19 8DH, UK list] Moulton Bicycle -- The Book ;-)) [sold ONLY by the MBC; send [GBP]9 + by Tony Hadland, with foreword cost of add'l postage, cheque payable by the good doctor himself; to 'Moulton Bicycle Club' to: Malcolm covers the first 24 years of and Jenny Lyon; 2 The Mill, Mill Green, the saga (1957-1981); very Turvey, Bedfordshire MK43 8ET, UK; now nice reading, well illustrated. why do I hate writing UK addresses so?] __Ian Feldman "of the two, Moon is the more important, because it shines at night when it is dark, unlike the Sun, which shines during the day when it is light anyway." -- a Jewish wisdom From: "Richard Taylor" Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 17:45:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: old Moultons never die > > Anyone know what an old Moulton frame is worth? It definately will > > need to be repainted.. and may have some rust damage. If I > > recall, the paint was a sickly powder blue and was quite terrible > > looking. > > It's difficult to assess without knowing which model exactly > it was, but roughly speaking, a rusty mid-sixties/ early- > seventies (they were discontinued in 1974) bike, complete > with components, in need of a paint of coat, may be had for > approx |GBP] 110 and up in the UK, twice that and more for ready- > to-bike. A rusty frame-only might be between [GBP] 25-60, I guess. > No, I don't know what is the current exchange rate [GBP]--US$. > > ^^^^ actually I think that these prices are a little on the steep side. You can pick up quite a decent machine for between 60 and 100 quid (no I have not gone and bought one recently, but I did have a quick look in the back of my Moultineer & the exchange list. The AM range however will certainly cost very much more than the pre '74 models Richard --- ,_~o Dr. Richard Taylor email : rwt@uk.ac.york.ohm _-\_<, CSEG, University of York tel : (44) 904 432351 (*)/'(*) Y015DD, England fax : (44) 904 432335 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 19:12:26 +0100 Subject: old Moultons never die brian volkoff (volkoffb@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu) writes on Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:39:40 PST; Subject: Moulton history? > An employee of a local bike shop recently bought an old beat up > Moulton cheap for the Campy Record parts that were on it. He had no > use for the frame, so he just threw it in a storage room. A barbarian. Terminate at once. > The front fork seems to have the suspension built into the steerer > tube (like the Lightning suspended forks). It doesn't look anything > like the recent Moulton front forks I've seen. Yea, the steering tube houses a specialized rubber-stick with a spring tightly wound around it, the patented Moulton suspension system. Despite appearances it is roughly the same as that of latter models (the latest one comes with a much more prominent bellows though). > Also it didn't have the flat luggage racks on front and back, like > I've seen most other Moultons with. There was a vast number of models of early (pre-1983) Moultons. Some of them came with luggage racks. Others didn't. The newer, AM models' racks won't fit the older ones though. Old racks are not entirely impossible to get hold of in the UK; there are people there that comb the scrapyards for old Moultons and rescue what they can for reselling. Indeed, Moultons are probably the only 25+ year old bikes for which a dedicated Preservation Society has been created and thrives. The Moultoneer, Moulton Bicycle Club's rag, has all the details. Addresses below. > Anyone know what an old Moulton frame is worth? It definately will > need to be repainted.. and may have some rust damage. If I > recall, the paint was a sickly powder blue and was quite terrible > looking. It's difficult to assess without knowing which model exactly it was, but roughly speaking, a rusty mid-sixties/ early- seventies (they were discontinued in 1974) bike, complete with components, in need of a paint of coat, may be had for approx |GBP] 110 and up in the UK, twice that and more for ready- to-bike. A rusty frame-only might be between [GBP] 25-60, I guess. No, I don't know what is the current exchange rate [GBP]--US$. A few useful addresses: ------------------------ The Moulton Bicycle Club [publishes a bi-monthly rag full Nigel Sadler, Publicity Officer of Moulton-uber-alles trivia; 480a Merton Road, Southfields, membership+subscription is [GBP]10 London SW18 5AE, UK for 'overseas' members; quite nice] Sales & Wants Co-Ordinator [send a SAE + [GBP]1 or 2 int'l reply Robert mcCann coupons to cover printing and postage 38 Stuart Road, Merton, of an up-to-date long sales & wants London SW19 8DH, UK list] Moulton Bicycle -- The Book ;-)) [sold ONLY by the MBC; send [GBP]9 + by Tony Hadland, with foreword cost of add'l postage, cheque payable by the good doctor himself; to 'Moulton Bicycle Club' to: Malcolm covers the first 24 years of and Jenny Lyon; 2 The Mill, Mill Green, the saga (1957-1981); very Turvey, Bedfordshire MK43 8ET, UK; now nice reading, well illustrated. why do I hate writing UK addresses so?] __Ian Feldman "of the two, Moon is the more important, because it shines at night when it is dark, unlike the Sun, which shines during the day when it is light anyway." -- a Jewish wisdom